Rough out of box experience with Tone board

Audio
1

Hi all,

Out of the box the Khada branded USB Type-A to USB-C only powers the device. It fails to enumerate on the USB bus in a known good port. Swap the cable to another cable I’ve used with other USB-C devices and it works. Ok, so dead cable out of the box, but then the Tone board stops playing audio after like 30 seconds. Un-plugging and re-plugging the cable works.

Reading the forums people say try another cable. So I dig-up a high quality USB-C to USB-C cable and it fails to work with my phone or my laptop.

Tried another USB-C cable and so far it’s playing for more then 30 minutes.

Not so sure I’m impressed with the out of the box experience and this is only the first hour.

Checked the firmware, it’s running v1.04 and the manufacturing timestamp on the PCB is 0220

What’s the deal?

  • USB-C Cable in the box flat out does not work. It only provides power, no USB signal.
  • It takes 3 additional USB cables of which I’ve never had issues before on other devices to work.

Almost seems as if someone failed to do proper length + impedance matching for the USB traces if it’s THIS sensitive at USB2.0 / 480 Mbps speeds. What does that say about the caliber of the analog design?

2 Likes
2

@2bluesc I am sorry to hear this happening to you, please be bit patient and cooperate with our community,

we are definitely here to help you, some of the Khadas team members will definitely to help you,

Try to ask them yourself, like @tsangyoujun, @Terry and @Frank

or ask some of our more experienced Members like @RDFTKV or @Vladimir.v.v

I unfortunately do not have This board, but wish to help, have a good day :slight_smile:

2 Likes
3

hi, if the Tone Board works without vim, then it must be provided with good power, if your Tone Board works with vim, it always has enough power and people have no comments. What is your scheme?

2 Likes
4

Yes as @Vladimir.v.v, did you try using a USB-3.0 port ?
Some times under low power the boards will work for a while then turn off due to low power input, it is the same case with any SBC or electronics

5

another proper test could also be :
connect your TB , using the khadas provided cable, to another host device (like another computer brand and model) and avoiding any hub.
Sorry for your bad user experience, but we are not sure yet if it’s the cable or the device or your computer which is to blame

6

HI all,

This device is plugged into the 4 Port USB 2.0 hub where I’d like to place it. This hub has been in use for years and on the same hub everday I use use a Yubikey, Google USB-C headphone DAC and countless USB mass storage devices. I have no reason to suspect bad power, power management or connectivity.

Additionally, I’d like to highlight USB-C cable included with the Khadas was dead on arrival for both my desktop PS with 4 port USB 2.0 hub and my laptop plugged in directly. Also, the device fails to work at all with my phone with a known good USB-C cable.

The common denominator is really the Khadas Tone board, I’ve tried several devices, several ports, several cables, and so far have only found one cable that works with this device (not even the cable in the box!).

7

USB 2.0 has a power limit of 500 mA, that is a real bottleneck ! your USB-C headphone DAC is not a power hungry device but neither will it perform as good as the tone board.
But, regarding the USB C cable I am not too sure about it, check with the Khadas team about it, @Gouwa might be able to help you.

8

in order to state this unequivocally, you need to check at least from different devices, preferably the port directly to the motherboard.

9

You’re not following my posts, I did. I tried it directly connected to my laptop via USB 3.0 port and directly connected to my cell phone.

10

The 4th USB cable works fine on the same USB port, the other ports are unused currently. Nothing else is drawing current. During daily use the same USB port powers a Yubikey + Google USB-C DAC + USB mass storage without issue. They were disconnected for the Khadas Tone board which requires a significant amount of special attention.

11

Sorry, my text is so displayed.

I wouldn’t especially consider the phone as a test, try for example a TV.

12

Ok, I get your point. it doesn’t have enough juice to power up, but in the case where it has enough power, it works for about 30 mins before it powers off, right ?

13

One of the 4 cables I tried works fine in the hub. Clearly the hub has enough power since once cable works as well as every other device I’ve ever plugged in to it, many simultaneously.

Here’s the tests I’ve preformed to date, I can clarify as needed.

Test 1
Setup: Khadas USB-C cable to 4 port USB 2.0 hub attached to my desktop computer with nothing else plugged in to the hub.
Result: Fail. Only white LED turns on, doesn’t enumerate on USB bus.
Repeat: Un-plug and re-plug, no power.
Conclusion: Bad USB-C cable from Khadas.

Test 2
Setup: Khadas USB-C cable directly to USB 3.0 port on my laptop.
Result: Fail. Only white LED turns on, doesn’t enumerate on USB bus.
Repeat: Un-plug and re-plug, no power.
Conclusion: Bad USB-C cable from Khadas.

Test 3
Setup: Red USB Type-A to USB-C 2.0 cable, 2m I use often with my Pixel 3 to 4 port USB 2.0 hub with nothing else attached to hub.
Result: Fail. Device works for 30 seconds to a few minutes then stops working. Still appears on USB bus and pulseaudio thinks it’s working in mode s32le 2ch 48000Hz.
Repeat: Un-plug and re-plug USB cable and the above result repeats.
Conclusion: Poor USB signal quality on cable or Tone board.

Test 4
Setup: Grey USB-C to USB-C 2.0 cable, 1m to my laptop’s Thunderbolt/USB 3 port. Confirmed this cable and port as working with Google Pixel 3.
Result: Fail. Tone board doesn’t illuminate white LED.
Repeat: Unplug and rotate USB-C cable, no change.
Conclusion: Poor USB signal quality on cable or Tone board.

Test 5
Setup: Grey USB-C to USB-C 2.0 cable, 1m to Google Pixel 3. Phone works fine with USB-C DAC + Headphone Amp (as does the desktop and laptop)
Result: Fail. Tone board doesn’t illuminate white LED.
Repeat: Unplug and rotate USB-C cable, no change.
Conclusion: Bad power, or poor USB signal quality on cable or Tone board.

Test 6
Setup: Red USB Type-A to USB-C 2.0 cable, 2m attached to laptop.
Result: Fail. Device works for 5-15 minutes then stops working. Still appears on USB bus and pulseaudio thinks it’s working in mode s32le 2ch 48000Hz.
Repeat: Un-plug and re-plug USB cable and the above result repeats.
Conclusion: Poor USB signal quality on cable or Tone board.

Test 7
Setup: Cheap, low quality black USB Type-A to USB-C 2.0 cable from who knows where (dug out of my closet) plugged in to same USB 2.0 hub on my desktop with no other devices attached. Cable measures 1m.
Result: Success. This appears to have worked and stayed connected over night.

To repeat, my frustration, it shouldn’t take 4 USB cables and 3 host devices (desktop, laptop and phone) to make a piece of quality gear work.

Something is wrong here and while Test 7 worked, I suspect it could fail at any moment. I thought test 6 had worked and wanted to blame the USB hub like everyone else here, but then Test 6 failed. Later test 7 works with the lowest quality cable and hub better then everything.

It’s worth noting these USB-C cables, hubs and host computers work fine with every other device I can find on my desk: Yubikey, USB Mass storage device, other USB-C DACs, Raspberry Pis and more.

1 Like
14

everything is correct, all these devices are equipped with their own separate power supply.

15

i think the tb and its original cable are designed to work optimally without a hub and on an usb2 type A port,
ask for a cable replacement from your vendor if khadas cable is defective, and return the tb if you insist on using that hub

16

Hello, Which version of the TB do you have?

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The Generic version dated 0220. They are identical as I understand it, only difference is whether or not the pin headers are installed.

18

Yes.
I asked because if the GPIO was mounted, it would be easier to check USB function, to rule out any possible USB-C connector(port) issues.

Evidently, this issue has been experienced by others. Sometimes a cable swap resolved it, other times a reversion to older TB firmware resolved it, and sometimes a port or supporting circuitry could be to blame.

Are your PC and laptop both Windows machines? If so, are you using the Window’s supplied driver?

.

1 Like
19

@2bluesc thanks for testing, I seriously don’t understand how after all these randomized tests that not even one yields success, definitely something is going wrong but I am still working on the reason why it didn’t work, will report back to you once i get the reason

20

Update, last night this setup failed. The board was in the same state as the others. White LED is illuminated, Pulseaudio thinks it’s connected and running at s32le 2ch 48000Hz, and it appears on the USB bus just fine. Verified other system sound settings with no luck.

Un-plug and re-plug cable and it starts working again.

Current result: 4 cables, 3 computers (laptop, desktop, phone), 7 USB ports this device won’t work for more then 24 hours.