@HH_Scott, thank’s for your technical intervention regarding MQA Licences …
Far from me the idea of blaming anyone, I could read that many peoples here are trying to undersatnd what will be the Bare-bone T2 performances comparatively to T2P’s, just trying to undestand why in some posts it is said that T2 is similar to T2P and in some others T2 is different to T2P…
If the future Bare-bone T2 has only I2S USB-C and RCA-Balanced connexions without any other hardware ships évolution, I agree @destine1 post, and for me Bare-bone T1 is enought…
As you said @HH_Scott, “Mqa only licenses to fully finished products”, why could’nt Khadas develop a T2P Bare-bone, in a screwed metal box as the one that it is sold for the T1, like that, if someone want to use it as a “fully finished product”, he could, and if someone want to use it as a Bare-bone, he also could use it like that… no more MQA licences problems because T2P Bare-bone will be sold as a fully finished product …
What exactly do you mean by “performance”? DAC is not about performance, but about features and quality. I suppose that T2P adds many new features and hopefully also some improvements in quality. T2 will probably have just similar features as T1 (maybe also adding the rotary encoder? or a header for a custom encoder?), but hopefully also slightly improved quality (if anything can be still improved). My hope is that T2 will have more usable pin headers, but let’s see. I am also worried about non-standard RCA and non-standard use of USB-C for I2S (will something possibly get burned if I plug something else into the I2S connector by mistake?).
And what do you mean by “T2P Bare-bone, in a screwed metal box”? That is either a contradiction or exactly what T2P is.
Still, I wonder who wants to use MQA? It means just worse quality (compared to 24bit FLACs at 96-192kHz) for more money and with dangerous licensing and technical limitations added on top. Just another marketing trap for squeezing money from people.
I may also be worthwhile mentioning, that DSD capability on tone2 (and perhaps tone 1 also after update to firmware v2.0??) may not be recognized on all linux systems as the usb audio sound driver needs to have been updated. The quirks list case (quirks.c) needs to have the new Khadas VID-PID added.
Latest 4.19, 5.4, 5.9 and 5.10 kernel versions seem to have it, any other kernel used must be patched. Just gone through checking all the Volumio versions on various platforms. We will be updating them.
Maybe I’ve misuse the term “performance” instead of upgrade, and as you can read up there, T2P is really a T1 hardware evolution (XMOS XU216 instead of XMOS XU208) (I’m talking about T1 because at the moment I’m writing these lines T2 does not still exist)…
At this Time nobody can exactly say what T2 bare-bone will be, even @Gouwa didn’t clearly answer to one of my question here after he said :
If you do as I did, read all posts up here, what comes out is that T2 will be a T1 with only RCA-Balanced … personnaly, I’ll stick with my old T1 (firmware 2.0 embeded) on my VIM2Pro and maybe buy another one for my VIM3Pro, nothing at home is RCA-balanced compatible !
At your question :
As the two T1 models (one stand-alone and on VIM bare-bone model with pin header), Khadas could have put T2P, pin header welded, in a finished screwed boxed product, so that anyone would want to use it as T2P Bare-bone on a VIM could do it by unscrew the box and place the board on his VIM…
For your others questions and reflexions, only a Khadas Team member as @Gouwa can answer…
Hi, I think @Gouwa already explained that T2 is going to be exactly what T2P is, just without the headphone amplifier and with XU208 instead of XU216. That does NOT mean it will be like T1! He did not say whether there will be any more “missing” components (such as the encoder?), but I suppose the board itself will be identical, just not completely populated with all the components like the T2P. If you look at the pictures above, there are already all the contacts present for the PIN headers to connect it to the VIMs - those are definitely not meant to be used in T2P, but they are still already there! So, I suppose T2 will be just the same board as T2P, with just some components missing and with a different XMOS chip (I guess the XMOS chips may just be pin compatible…?).
As for the XMOS chip: I suppose there is no need for a higher performance chip unless you want it do all the MQA-bullshit. The original XMOS is probably powerful enough to provide everything else you need to serve the DAC. But that does not mean that T2 is the same as T1, even if the XMOS and the DAC is the same as on T1. You may be disappointed and call it just a “new revision” of the T1, but then you may say the same about T2P. I think, there is not that much that can be improved unless some “new breaking technology” is discovered. As far as I have heard, MQA is definitely nothing new nor useful (rather the opposite), and human ears will not be further improved by technology either - definitely not by a faster XMOS chip.
As for the versions of T1: it is basically one and the same board. The only difference between the “generic” and the “VIM edition” is the fact, that in the latter case the pin headers are already soldered to the board, while in the former case they are not soldered (but you can still solder them, if you want, and in that way you can still turn the “generic” edition into the “VIM” edition).
So, T2P is probably exactly what you say: a T2 in a box, with a different XMOS chip for the MQA-nonsense and with a headphone amplifier soldered on (yes, I would definitely like to have that one on T2 too!). That is at least what I have understood so far.
Let the time pass, we are supposing lots of things about this future “comming soon” T2…
As yous said, I had the same idea, maybe I’ll perform welding a 40 pins header on a T2P if the future T2-Bare-bone is a “T1 like”, instead of buying a T2 VIM-Ed and install that T2P “homebrewed” on my VIM3Pro
@Gouwa the design looks fantastic, and innovative, with the T2V connector, but I have a small question:
How good is the clearance between the middle bal. RCA plug and the ethernet port ? It seems ever so slightly cramped once the connectors are used and the ethernet cable retention clip might get pressed down, giving it a chance to disconnect…
I believe if such a problem does exist, slightly longer M2 spacer can be used to give a better separation, and prevent such scenario…
I speculate, have not seen schematic yet…
It seems the GPIO is there, even shows a group of USB pins circled(6, 7, 8, 9). So may just be a matter of mounting the GPIO header to the T2/T2P, for VIM3/3L w/New M2X mounted to M.2. Maybe Tone2 will have the header mounted as option.
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