Software 3D acceleration

#1

If the vim2 doesn’t have 3D acceleration then how does Linux work, i mean does it use the Cpu cores instead to do 3D or is it 2D, what can the graphics chip do since it doesn’t have support for 3D acceleration

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#2

Linux is able to software render desktops and so on, also it can install Mesa GLES libs which can emulate any featrues it can’t find drivers for, though this indeed does use up a lot of CPU time making the system quite slow. I do a small overview on my site here
http://www.scratchpadgames.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=13

If they do get some GPU acceleration on this, it would be quite a beast, but I don’t see much sign of anything happening.

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#3

Oh ok so linux will be using software, does Linux alone like the user interface need 3D acceleration. Also with the emulation of the hardware does it emulate all the features or are we able to select which graphics features to emulate or dies it emulate everything. I’m not sure how this works, for example if I’m using this board mixing audio and a plugin I use needs open gl type feature to run the GUI will the software mode work to emulate, I know the 8 cores won’t be enough but I’m wondering what can I do with them, I’m sad for the lack of 3D hardware. I was gonna go with Odroid c2 but the extra ram and cores has me with the vim2

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#4

OpenGLES is strictly for 3D graphics, normal video play back, sound and desktop systems don’ t use it. Sound is not an OpenGL concern either.

The Mesa OpenGLES emulation is pretty solid, I think it drives what it can in hardware as many things are common to many GPU’s but what it doesn’t have drivers for, usually advanced graphic concepts, it emulates with varying degrees of reliability.

It very much depends on the packages used whether they need openGLES support, and most will work ok with emulated drivers, but perhaps a ltitle slower.
The Vim2 is one of the most powerful boards I have in my collection but indeed it doesn’t have GPU acceleration, So its great for non graphical tasks.
If you really need GPU acceleration, try a RockPi 4, its just as, if not more powerful with a newer 6 core system, but does indeed have hardware GPU. Also the Odroid XU4 is a beast with 8 cores also, and accelerrated GPU drivers on most of its OS’s

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#5

Doesn’t video playback need video card stuff lol or does it do it in software, since the vim2 doesn’t have graphics acceleration is there any features that the graphics chip can do or is it just useless?

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#6

Video playback, and 2D blitting to screen for desktops are not part of the GPU’s 3D functions, it does video playback,it appears to have decoders for video ok, but thats not what 3D acceleration is for.

Thats mainly for 3D games and complex graphic apps. For normal 2D and playback apps, there are some standard functions all GPU’s can do, and some video and compression systems that are accelerated.
There does seem to be some hardware acceleration on Android , so andorid apps seem to be fine as long as they don’t hog too much memory.

But there are currently no Linux hardware drivers for 3D acceleration on a Vim2, so some packages which use 3D acceleration (OpenGLES) will not function at optimal speed.

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#7

Oh ok so the graphics chip ia not a dead end it has some features, I really hope it gets support, I’m really disappointed in the lack of support, I like the 8 cores over other boards but I guess there’s pros and cons with the vim2 for sure, also some other boards have a73 Cpu which I think is vulnerable to spectre and meltdown I think, and the a53 isn’t, obviously there a patch but it does hinder performance a little bit.

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#8

as a pure processing machine, the 8 cores on the Vim2 work incredibly well indeed, it out performs a lot of other boards, If you don’t need 3D graphics, its awesome…sadly I need graphics :frowning: So unless something is done about that I keep it in my drawer of shame.

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#9

Right I understand, if it had a pci a lot I’m sure you you would of popped in a graphics card, some have the mini pci e, but in other words I would only need the board for audio mixing applications, at first I wasn’t sure if the plugins I would need to use require any graphics rendering, I guess some would but I’m thinking even if i did, the fact that I can render on the Cpu cores brings me a little bit of hope. But I got my eyes on the vim2 for now until something else catches my attention. I prefer more cores then less cores and gpu support as in my audio world, graphics cards don’t help me for my needs, I guess I’ll have to get my hands on the vim2 to see just how well it’s able to run graphics in emulation from the basic things at least. 8cores have to be decent for small things I assume, I’m also a tech nerd lol I like to experiment lol. Anyways that’s for you input on the graphics situation. Cheers!!!

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#10

More cores really doesn’t mean more performence, it depends on the app, many of them don’t do multi core processing, and also if the CPU can operate all 8 cores at once, Many big/little arrangments like the Am912 can only operate in a group of 4 in one app.
Graphic cards are unlikly to work on an ARM SBC, even if they have PCI, it won’t be a full width, so you’d be limited in the type of graphic card, and then worst of all, you may have issues with the drivers.

Honestly there are new Rockchip 6 core boards out now, for half the price, that outperform the Vim2, and have graphic drivers. I mentioned the RockPi4 as an example, there’s a few others too.
But sure, get one, try it out.

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#11

Interesting, I wonder if the vim2 can use all 8 cores at once, nkt sure if I will be using any applications that will use the big little setup differently. And for my needs I tend to stick with boards that have their own compatible sound card such as the tone board from vim a lot of other boards don’t have their own and are not compatible with other boards. Sometimes this whole thing can be a big puzzle that I can’t ignore, lol. If only the raspberry pi had better options for my needs, it has the best support but not the best specs

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#12

very very true, Rpi is amazing for support but its a low/mid range performer at the best of times. But it is generally rock solid at what it does.
Vim2 is is really a media player/Android unit, I honestly wouldn’t use it for much more than that or as a server.

Check out Tinkerboard, RockPi4 and the NeoPu M4/T4/Neo4 those are serious beasts. As indeed is the Odroid C2 and XU4 Octocore. (and their new N2 should be amazing) all these boards offer good support, good options and awesome power. The RockPro64 from Pine is also a great board but its software is not very well supported yet, but it has the PCIe interface you crave.
There’s a lot of options, the Vim2 has a place, but until it gets graphic systems its going to lag behind

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#13

Agreed, by any chance do you know any 16 core boards lol. I know they have a board called Parallella, it had 18 total cores but it’s a old board and support for it is lacking and it only has 1GB ram.

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#14

RK3399 and S912 have close GPUs (T8xx). RK3399 has good support from the manufacturer for Linux, including HW for GPU. But for now, for RK3399, HW is based using the 4.4 kernel. In during the last time, over creation of free version of support HW for series of T8xx, works Panfrost (you can find the in Internete and on this forum). They have made great progress in this area. At the same time, Maxime Jourdan is working on support for VPU (hardware video decoding). You can already evaluate the performance of HW with the new kernel 5 in Libreelec test images on VIM2 (s912). It is planned to release Libreelec for RK3399 using similar drivers in the near future. By the way, Khadas has its own version of the EDGE-V model (format with VIM1\VIM2) based on RK3399 and it works fine.

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#15

Cool thanks for the info

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#16

The edge v has support for graphics in Linux, I was just taking a look at them and I might consider, can’t remember if our previous convos stated it or not, was trying to look

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#17

Kernel 4.4 in Armbian + special media script = supports HW up to 4K. Libreelec has full support for all elements (BT WiFi sound etc) and 4K video output. The main kernel of HW will be with the release of Panfrost.

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#18

Would Ubuntu 18.04 be a option as well, are they official support or like hacked versions of support. I’m not yik familiar with armbian

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#19

Armbian is a significantly improved version of Ubuntu and Debian.

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#20

Cool I’ll check it out

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